Most respectfully, JDC-ONE, I think you completely missed the point of the story and how the rather odd-seeming elements of it you pointed out (e.g., the admittedly and – by the creators – purposely ridiculous choice of suitors presented) tie into the point.
I’ve seen the movie, loved it, and saw it for what it was. Now what I’m about to say may sound as obscure as one of the Great Baba’s mutterings over some pot of indescribable unmentionables, but hear me out. The movie begins with how various people look at “Fate” – that is the theme of the movie, the nature of Fate and whether and how one can change it. And as one proceeds, if one knows what to look for, one can see that the heroine actually describes her own way of looking at Fate verses the way others look at it.
Now when Fate deals you a hand, no matter how bad the hand is, you’re supposed to accept it – right? Try telling that to someone like our heroine, who is geared by nature to accept nothing less than certain kinds of physical perfection, just for starters, and who naturally has a quite different concept of Fate than does anyone around her. The point isn’t that she’s not even tempted to accept her mother’s demand, the point is that it’s not a demand she can accept by nature even if she wanted to. (And don’t overlook her momentary surprised and very positive reaction to the one very handsome young man in the movie, until it was revealed he wasn’t one of the chiefs’ sons.)
So then: in Jungian-psych terms, we have a young ENFP woman caught between a rock and a hard place (two equally bad choices, obedience or disobedience) as only an NT mother like hers in a society like hers could put her, trying to find (with all good intentions) a desperate way out of the trap, missing out on a crucial piece of information in the process, and in true ENFP fashion thanks to her haste, getting knocked between the eyes by the Law of Unintended Consequences and making the trap even worse.
On the one hand, as we go we can see the web of circumstances and their hidden connections – something an ENFP is keenly aware of, always – draw together as the movie proceeds. On the other, to navigate that web and one’s insight about it, one needs foresight and the wisps guide her in exactly the way an ENFP uses such foresight (very one-dimensional and directed). She makes good choices accordingly with that information, not quite knowing where she’s headed, until she’s exactly at the right place and time in the right circumstances to resolve the trap she finds herself in. This is how an ENFP deals with Fate, which for her mother is a rigid logical framework backed by law which is for her daughter’s own good but which for the daughter is the freedom to explore “what might be” and see how that relates to “what will be”.
I’m an ENFP myself (most Hollywood writers, I am reliably informed, are also and I’ve observed that so are many cartoonists) and thanks to my training (by my informant) I can see ENFP archetypes playing out all over the place in BRAVE. Someone having a different order of thought processes may find that interplay difficult to follow or appreciate. But I see no evidence that lazy writing or plotting was involved. On the contrary, our heroine reacted pretty much like an ENFP would react in real life to similar circumstances. A person of another type of the 16 facing the same circumstances would react differently in all likelihood, have a different view of Fate and try to change it or else to accept it accordingly.
Sorry for the length. I’m not casting a vote of unpopularity here – I’m just hoping I can add some clarity despite myself.
She poisons her mother and i don’t care into what Jungian-psych group you fit into that’s still wrong.
There’s no justifying cursing a person who has shown you nothing but love and caring their entire lives. I maybe old fashioned and crazy like that I don’t know, lol
But I do believe that the writers were lazy in many cases, the three brothers being one point to that, slap dash at best and I’ve seen UP so I know this crew can do better.
Maybe I should have made that a point in my initial article but I hold Pixar up to a higher standard, why because typically they do as well and they fumbled the ball on this one IMO.
I’m happy you enjoyed the movie some one had to, lol
Great talking to you as always.
JD
I’ve heard mixed reviews from friends in regards to Brave. Yours just adds to the mix and tips the balance more towards negative. At least you provide better reasons than “It’s just the Disney standard heroine gets her way plot formula” that others I’ve heard. I have yet to see the film, and might not bother.
3 Comments
Most respectfully, JDC-ONE, I think you completely missed the point of the story and how the rather odd-seeming elements of it you pointed out (e.g., the admittedly and – by the creators – purposely ridiculous choice of suitors presented) tie into the point.
I’ve seen the movie, loved it, and saw it for what it was. Now what I’m about to say may sound as obscure as one of the Great Baba’s mutterings over some pot of indescribable unmentionables,
but hear me out. The movie begins with how various people look at “Fate” – that is the theme of the movie, the nature of Fate and whether and how one can change it. And as one proceeds, if one knows what to look for, one can see that the heroine actually describes her own way of looking at Fate verses the way others look at it.
Now when Fate deals you a hand, no matter how bad the hand is, you’re supposed to accept it – right? Try telling that to someone like our heroine, who is geared by nature to accept nothing less than certain kinds of physical perfection, just for starters, and who naturally has a quite different concept of Fate than does anyone around her. The point isn’t that she’s not even tempted to accept her mother’s demand, the point is that it’s not a demand she can accept by nature even if she wanted to. (And don’t overlook her momentary surprised and very positive reaction to the one very handsome young man in the movie, until it was revealed he wasn’t one of the chiefs’ sons.)
So then: in Jungian-psych terms, we have a young ENFP woman caught between a rock and a hard place (two equally bad choices, obedience or disobedience) as only an NT mother like hers in a society like hers could put her, trying to find (with all good intentions) a desperate way out of the trap, missing out on a crucial piece of information in the process, and in true ENFP fashion thanks to her haste, getting knocked between the eyes by the Law of Unintended Consequences and making the trap even worse.
On the one hand, as we go we can see the web of circumstances and their hidden connections – something an ENFP is keenly aware of, always – draw together as the movie proceeds. On the other, to navigate that web and one’s insight about it, one needs foresight and the wisps guide her in exactly the way an ENFP uses such foresight (very one-dimensional and directed). She makes good choices accordingly with that information, not quite knowing where she’s headed, until she’s exactly at the right place and time in the right circumstances to resolve the trap she finds herself in. This is how an ENFP deals with Fate, which for her mother is a rigid logical framework backed by law which is for her daughter’s own good but which for the daughter is the freedom to explore “what might be” and see how that relates to “what will be”.
I’m an ENFP myself (most Hollywood writers, I am reliably informed, are also and I’ve observed that so are many cartoonists) and thanks to my training (by my informant) I can see ENFP archetypes playing out all over the place in BRAVE. Someone having a different order of thought processes may find that interplay difficult to follow or appreciate. But I see no evidence that lazy writing or plotting was involved. On the contrary, our heroine reacted pretty much like an ENFP would react in real life to similar circumstances. A person of another type of the 16 facing the same circumstances would react differently in all likelihood, have a different view of Fate and try to change it or else to accept it accordingly.
Sorry for the length. I’m not casting a vote of unpopularity here – I’m just hoping I can add some clarity despite myself.
She poisons her mother and i don’t care into what Jungian-psych group you fit into that’s still wrong.
There’s no justifying cursing a person who has shown you nothing but love and caring their entire lives. I maybe old fashioned and crazy like that I don’t know, lol
But I do believe that the writers were lazy in many cases, the three brothers being one point to that, slap dash at best and I’ve seen UP so I know this crew can do better.
Maybe I should have made that a point in my initial article but I hold Pixar up to a higher standard, why because typically they do as well and they fumbled the ball on this one IMO.
I’m happy you enjoyed the movie some one had to, lol
Great talking to you as always.
JD
I’ve heard mixed reviews from friends in regards to Brave. Yours just adds to the mix and tips the balance more towards negative. At least you provide better reasons than “It’s just the Disney standard heroine gets her way plot formula” that others I’ve heard. I have yet to see the film, and might not bother.
This from an animation fan.